Hip hop head explain this

[Cdero]

hiphophead said:

ahhhh, mr. cruz. back for another bout i see. but here's what's up, i mentioned in my last post that the next response from a trinitarian should be ANSWERS to my questions. I thought that's what this was, but after reading it i see response to a few questions, and comments to ANSWERS i made that are replied to out of their original context. i'm sure i'll respond anyway though, since it would only take a minute. i'll be back.

I will be more more than willing to answer your questions. I did mentioned that my responce or comments to you were limited. If you don't mind, please repost your questions so I won't have to spend time looking for them. Having them in one place is much more easier for me. Also, this concerns me, you said, " i'm sure i'll respond anyway though, since it would only take a minute. i'll be back."

Please do not treat this discussion as a "tit for tat" thing. If that is your attitude, than we will be simply wasting our time. Please, carefully read and give adiquate answers to my questions. Remember that there may be people reading who are not responding. I think that as teacher's of God's word, we have a responcibility with the teaching of these people. One!

P.S. The paper is fine!

[HIPHOPHEAD]

LoL. No fam. Tit for tat is never the way i like to go. This is a serious discussion as far as I'm concerned. I would have answered earlier but had to go back to see the context of the stuff you quoted from me. So here we go.

That is not exactly answering the question. The passage clearly shows three distinct persons. To write it off by saying God can do anything He pleases is another way of saying you don't have an answer. But peep it, lets look at that. Are you saying that God can multiply into three distinct persons in the same moment? So is it safe to say that even though you reject the doctrine of the Trinity that you hold to the doctrine being true in that moment of John 1:33-34?

Ok, which part wasn't an answer to you?! I said it was a sign to John the Baptist. A sign that he as jewish man completely understood. So I'm not sure how don't think I answered it. Well, first of all God mutipling in to 3 distinct person doesn't make sense to me. God is one, God manifesting Himself simultaneously in different ways, doesn't make each manifestation a person.

Thats a pretty good assumption would'nt you say? I mean if you recieved a call from the answer while I was at your crib helping your mom clean the dishes, I think that no one would nock you for assuming that what you have is three distinct persons, you hearing the answer's voice over the phone, me being at your crib helping your mom clean the dishes. However, to assume that the answer and I and your mom are not three distinct persons would be a poor assumption.

I also assume that you, answer, and my mom aren't God and outside of the rules of human limitations.

No, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three different "ways" shown by one person, rapping, preaching, and simply talking are three different ways, three different ways that one can communicate the gospel. However, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three different ways but three distinct persons. In John 17:5, we read, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory that I had with with you before the world began?" As sure enough rapping can't talk back to singing, a "way" of God can not talk back to God. Tell me HHH, when did a "way" of God ever have the same glory that the Father has? Since when did the Father's ways start to talk back to Him? Previously you said that in John 1, God speaking to Jesus from heaven while Jesus was on earth being baptized and the Spirit of God decending on Him was an example of God being able to do anything. Did God do the same thing, multiply Himself into more than one person before the world began?

I didn't say the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 different ways. The dove is a way, the voice from the sky is a way, and Jesus a sacrifice for man's sin is a way. Father is WHO/WHAT God is due to his divine attributes; Holy Spirit is WHO/WHAT God due to his divine attributes; Jesus/Yesua is WHAT God is due to his divine attributes. There's no need for ONE all powerful being to multiply himself!?

So in other words, it shows three distint somethings but not persons? Is this the only place that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is mentioned? If not, what other places are they mentioned? And, in those other places, what are they doing?

huh?! I'm not sure of what you're asking. Please elaborate.

Yes! In terms of not being physical in nature, yes. So is the Father, and the Son ( prier to taking on a physical being).

And as I said to answer right after he answered that question "Ok, you said "Yes the holy Spirit is a Spirit". Cool. Well, i have no reason (from scripture) to think or believe that The Holy Spirit is a PERSON within God, because God is a SPIRIT (John 4:24).

So, if John 4:24 is true (and it is) and Holy Spirit is a Spirit. Then Holy Spirit can only be another way to refer to GOD himself, and not a PERSON within GOD. That is if we go by scripture."

How is it an assumption that they are distinct?

Also, u have yet to explain what is goin on in this passage, If the father is God and the son and the spirit, yet God is only 1 person ( I think this is your view, correct me if im wrong). Then how/why is God revealing himself like this?

Yes the holy Spirit is a Spirit

How is it an assumption? Like i said before, because it makes assertion about God's character that God himself doesn't make. I let God define that. Yes, that is wrong. As i told the answer, Jesus is the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT. The revealing of himself had redeemption/past example/etc relevance.

Well, I mean upon reading Genesis 11 where is shows God confusing the languages, I think it is prettty safe to assume that God has control over languages even though the text does'nt state that. I think that upon reading about the plagues that God brought Egypt shows that God is much more powerful than the so called gods of Egypt even though the passage does not state that. In other words, in order to believe something about God, such as God being maraculous, the text does not have to explicitly state because the text can also show it. In fact, the best way that scripture teaches us about God is by showing what God has done. The Gospels are narratives and therefore teaches us about God through stories. Based on your reasoning, I guess one can't watch or read Spider man and conclude that Spider has super powers since the movie does not state that spider has super powers. I guess actions are not louder than words after all. Therefore, even though John 1 shows three distincted persons, we can't assume that God is not three persons because the text does not state it in that fashion?

Ummm, God is all-knowing correct? So if any language exists it came from God and He knows it correct? So there's no assumption in believing that God has power over what he created. God stated that He was more powerful than all other gods, therefore mentioning the obvious is not necessary. The fact (already biblically stated fact) that God is all powerful means that he has the power to cause miracles to happen. It's plain in scripture that certain parts of God's character that have been explicitly declared have over laying factors that make various other things that you mentioned sub-headings of the main category. Yet i find no main heading (in scripture) that incompasses God being more than one person

If you read the story of spider from the beginning, yes the fact that he has super powers and where they came from is mentioned. Of course unlike God spider man wasn't always in that state. What John 1 shows is the manifestion of a dove, (a symbol of the Holy Spirit in Judaism - significance for John the Baptist), a voice from heaven (more biblical significance), Jesus was the one John was told this would happen too. So, unless you believe a voice in itself is a person, and that dove is person, the we don't have 3 persons.

So, Jesus is His own ways? You said before that the voice of the Father about Jesus, Jesus on earth being baptized, and the Holy Spirit decending on Jesus, are all three different ways that God has revealed Himself.

Umm, no i didn't. However, if go by your logic of what makes a person I guess since the VOICE OF GOD WALKED in Genesis, then it could possibly be a person of God as well.

Now you are saying that the voice of the Father about Jesus, Jesus on earth being baptized, and the Holy Spirit decending on Jesus IS Jesus.

Just so there's no confusion. I'm not just NOW stating that.

So would you say that the Father's voice was the voice of Jesus asserting that the humanity of Christ ( I am ssuming that you view the humanity of Christ as being the Son) was His Son?

That right there is not a bad explination. Verse 33 is the Key. It shows that this was a sign to John. A sign he would understand, because GOD told him it would happen. And yes, God in the flesh = equals the Son of God.

Indeed God in the OT has spoken to man from heaven but God has also spoken to man from things on earth such as the burning bush. God also spoke through Angels and animals like Balaam's donkey. I really don't see the connection of where God speaks from with the baptism of Christ except that the Father spoke again from heaven. You are kind of explaining your little theory a bit roughly. Also, there is something signifacent in the Father speaking in John 1 from the heavens and that is the claim that is being made in that Jesus is His son ( all of Jesus).

Actually, there's mention of a voice from Heaven in John 1. That however is in Matt 3, Mark 1, and Luke 3. Let's just remember what kind of son Jesus is; the only BEGOTTEN.

I really don't see the point in what you said there. The fact that the Holy Spirit is a spirit does not nullify that the Holy Spirit is a person that co-exist with the other two persons within the Trinity. I am a spirit yet I am also a person.

Well, first off we need proof that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON within a trinity. The information I do have from scripture is: God is one, God is a spirit, God is Holy, etc. Don't have anywhere in scripture where God is 3, where God is 3 who's and a what, etc.
Yes you are a person, with a spirit. But you are also not God.

Yeah but you will never find Johovah Rophi having a coverstation with Jehovah-Nissi unless of course they were distinct persons.

lol. First off you obvioulsy mis-understood what I was saying. Hopefully it was cleared earlier in this post. Next, you notice that these "conversations" were only between Father and Son? How come FATHER/HOLY SPIRIT and SON/HOLY SPIRIT convos never took place? And technically, if we go by the actual definition of a "conversation" Father/Son one's didn't happen either.

[HIPHOPHEAD]

does the lack of response mean i'm correct? ;D

[HIPHOPHEAD]

*tapping fingers on desk* Cruz? the answer? anyone?! lol