Hey kobe welcome! Now answer this!

[the answer]

Rememeber on HHFTS I asked u to explain why Tim was "Legalistic and unannointed" U never got back to me.

Well, we can have the convo here.

[kobe]

u know what Answer, i'm sorry man! i read your PM to me, at a time when i didnt have time to answer, and since i dont ever check my PM's till i get an email about it, i forgot to reply to you later.

anyhoo, if u really wanna discuss, shoot me a regular email at [e-mail] that way, i can reply when i have time. again, i dont think its an issue that can glorify God and edify the brethren any more than what i posted in that thread, so any further discussion is better private, i think. God bless

thanks for the welcome, Nas invited me here. i mean Kanye West. oops, i mean Quiet Storm. ;-) lol

[the answer]

I disagree with u! I think this can edify those who watch or take part in this debate. This site is very free, u don't have to worry about the thread being erased or anything, or u being banned.

I want people to see the debate, I think it could be helpful, and I know some DO want to hear more of your views.

Also I heard u booed shai at flavor fest. Why u do that? This for u seems to be such an important issue that u would do something like that.

Let me know where u are coming from.

[DoGMaTiX]

admin said:

Also I heard u booed shai at flavor fest. Why u do that? This for u seems to be such an important issue that u would do something like that.

SAY WHAT!!!

I'm glad i didn't hear that! I would have called him out right there on the spot and held him in a headlock and have Shai give him noogies.

[DoGMaTiX]

Well I don't want to answer for Kobe but I think its pretty simple as to why Kobe thinks the way he does.

Kobe is a "Faith" movement member.

Shai and Tim are totally against the "Faith" movement and believe they are false prophets.

Hence, kobe don't like Tim and Shai, LOL!!!

But I agree with Tim and Shai myself, so I guess my music will not be annointed either or used of God. We'll see

The "legalistic" accusation though is absurd.

[quietstorm]

kobe said:

thanks for the welcome, Nas invited me here. i mean Kanye West. oops, i mean Quiet Storm. ;-) lol

Funny guy Kobe by the way I loved you in Malibu's Most Wanted.

[DoGMaTiX]

quietstorm said:

kobe said:

thanks for the welcome, Nas invited me here. i mean Kanye West. oops, i mean Quiet Storm. ;-) lol

Funny guy Kobe by the way I loved you in Malibu's Most Wanted.

[eternal]

There is so much hypocricy in this thread, where shall I begin?

First Answer is chasing down Kobe to respond to him, which Roldan has told me is "condenscending." I have repeatedly tried to get Roldan to answer ANYTHING I give to him, and he dodges like Ben Stiller in a head band. And then deletes my posts and his posts and any post incriminating him as ignoring points against him.

Then answer attempts to assure Kobe by saying

This site is very free, u don't have to worry about the thread being erased or anything, or u being banned.

Many of my posts have been deleted when they were on point, and respectful, yet they questioned a moderator, so they were deleted. So I really question the integrity of the above quote Answer. Maybe YOU wouldn't delete stuff all willy nilly, but you have given power to those who do just that on a routine basis. Why should Kobe have any confidence that he would be treated any differently?

Also, him booing Shai is somehow suppossed to be wrong. Yet he and Tim made a song denouncing Kobe's doctinral views and calling him (by doctrine, not name) heretical. Which is, I suppose ok by the all of you. But if Kobe responds publicly by the only way he can (booing) that he disagrees with Shai and Tim, yall are bugging out on it? And he is irresponsible? And deserves noogies?

Another hypocricy I see is that,

But I agree with Tim and Shai myself, so I guess my music will not be annointed either or used of God. We'll see

Which is a load of baloney. Here Roldan uses the EXACT same defense that a poster on Luke Geraty's message board used against Roldan when Roldan said that tongues/miracles/prophecies are not of God. When dude expressed that Roldan was calling his faith unathentic and unannointed, Roldan dismissed him.

Ironic that now Roldan shares the SAME sentiments when the table is turned on him.

This whole thread is hypocritical.

1) Yes threads and posts DO get deleted even when nothing bad was said.

2) Kobe did on a MINOR scale what Shai and Tim did on a MAJOR scale and yall defend Shai and Tim and are weary of Kobe.

3) Roldan acts offended that his faith is criticized and he claims to be considered unauthentic (kobe believes Shai and Tim are Christians as far as he has told me, just that they are wrong and doing harm through this aspect of their ministry), yet he champions Shai and Tim for calling out others in the same way, regardless if there are people on the other end feeling the same way that Roldan expresses to be feeling right now, and even as recently as within the last week, did it DIRECTLY to an individual on VOL.

This thread is mad hypocrtitical.

I love you all, appreciate the conersations that you afford at times, but I'm just calling out the falsehoods that yall are laying on Kobe.

I'm saving this post just in case it gets deleted.

peace.

[the answer]

ok

I will only respond to the points that are directed at me, and I'll let Roldan explain himself on the other points.

#1 Are u saying that I'm ( the answer) being hyprocritcal? If so , how?

#2 I didn't know he had deleted some of your posts. I will talk to him on that.

#3 I didn't chase down kobe. He came here. Someone invited him. I Pm'ed him on a diff site, he never got back, so when I saw he was here I thought 'lets just conversate here' I wasn't the cyber bounty hunter LOL

#4 Your point about kobe booing is mistaken. Kobe is free to make a song about why he thinks 'reformed' doctrine is mistaken ( or whatever doc he disagrees with) It's WAY different to boo someone who is on stage ministering. I wouldn't Boo a satanist if I was at a place where they were "minstering" It's an issue of respect. It isn't a football game. It was a ministry concert. I'm sure Tim nor Shai would go to a Benny Hinn rally and boo him. Two different things here E.

Even Hank hanagraff has had dinner with Benny Hinn, and talked about his concerns FACE TO FACE. There is a correct way to express disagreement. Booing is childish.

[kobe]

he savin the post in case it gets deleted, LOL! i've done that before. :-)

anyway, thanks eternal, and you're words about me were true, that i do view Tim and Shai as brethren in the Lord, but wrong on this divisive aspect.

but Answer, i have no reason not to believe you and your intentions, i truly do, and i appreciate it, but i'm moved only by the will of the Lord (when i'm obedient that is), and He's showed me this kinda thing just isnt good for the body, publicly anyway. as i said in the other thread, instead of posting specifics about what i feel someone is doing wrong, i'll post specifics on what God has done right in my own life and through His Word. if you have any questions about what i posted about the Word and my experience in the other thread, i'll be happy to discuss it. :-) here's a link for you and others...

www.hiphopforthesoul.com/board/index.php?showtopic=11606

oh, and yeah, i booed him when he did his verse from "16 bars" from the Rocksoul cd, where he specifically names the gospel of health and wealth as heretical and takes many stabs at prosperity and anointed preachers on TV. it was just my public way of showing my disapproval for those terrible lyrics. i aint boo him da whole time or nothin. i fear even talking about that alone could spark anger and debate with some people here, but since it was already brought up, and i did do it publicly, nothing i can do about it. if you are reading this, and that is the case, feeling angry and wanting to retaliate, i suggest to take this time to let God convict you of this angry heart and/or harmful thoughts or plots. if you know the Lord, you KNOW that is not how He would have us operate.

and no, i dont "dislike" Tim or Shai. i see their sincerity, as i said in the other thread, even though i felt Shai added alot of bondage and legalism on top of his presentation of the gospel at Flavorfest, i was still prayin in the Spirit for those lost souls that God would convict and lead them to Himself... and as i posted many Scriptures from Galatians in the other thread, i they may be an example of where Shai and/or Tim were deceived. i know for a fact many ministers who preach against Charismatics do it simply to make themselves feel better, and appear more spiritual, holy, and "deep" than others. the same thing many sinners do at our jobs, lol. :-( they try to use very wise human wisdom and man's logic, and i think people who dont know any better, as i used to as a new Christian who bought into the heresy hunting bandwagon, will buy into this deception, and begin preaching the same thing later on. and its like, once i was delivered from that side, its SOO easy to see it. and thats probably with anything, where its a situation where we've been in the exact same boat before, but God delivered us out of it. prime examples include my parents and a neighbor of ours who goes to my parents' church, who live and die by the opinion of the legalistic baptist pastor there, and their ways are a regurgitation of what their pastor says. :-(

i dunno, as i was having a conversation with a guy a couple days ago, i feel that the easiest way to get answers is to go to God Himself. this is the single greates priveledge under the New Covenant, and i think the single most neglected one as well in the church. Personally, God will not show me specific answers on trivial issues like whether a pre or post-tribulation rapture is the correct view, etc, but when it comes to important things and doctrines and things of His nature or things that have to do with my life or its path, God ALWAYS give me the answer.

to make a short story long, lol, the guy i was conversating with is a Religion major and one of the smartest guys at my school. he's literally fascinated with me (or so he thinks, its really the Spirit of God inside me), probably because he's never met a "genuine" Christian before, or at least one that could explain things to him about God. (his dad is an Apostolic pastor). we're in a religion class together, that deals with the Documentary Hypthesis. and many things they say in class, and just other stuff i've heard, even within the Christian circle, like a GREAT exposition AliasBDI did about calvanism on dasouth, will make near perfect natural and logical sense, and i'll even go before the Lord about these types of issues when they come up, open minded, and asking Him to reveal to me His truth, and if i've been deceived, and EVERY time, He always reveals to me His truth, and its only by faith, and by His Spirit that reveals it. obviously His Word also confirms it, but i left that one out, because most of the time when these people are coming up with these false doctrines, they are also using the Word, just with their head knowledge and not by the Spirit of God... anyhoo, thats the jist of it. i mentioned this to that guy because he used to be a Christian, but after becoming a religion major and gaining so much head knowledge, he lost his faith, and has no idea what he is and what he believes anymore. many people i've spoken to in college have had the exact same thing happen to them, but this guy is the epitome of them. i pray for him alot and i think its Awesome that he's really fascinated with me and wants to talk to me all the time. his name is steve, ya'll pray for him. sorry for rambling, God bless

[kobe]

Answer, i see where you're coming from, and while there were many "serious" moments at Crossover, like while Shai was "ministering" by presenting the gospel to the lost, i didnt "boo" him during that time, tho' he did add alot of legalism and bondage.

while he was rapping that song, it very much WAS like a football game type of atmosphere. unless the rappers are doing a specific praise and worship song or ministering through words (not songs), 90% of the time is not "ministering", in the aspect of touching lives. you just had to be there to see what i'm saying. God bless

[eternal]

1. I won't say that you were intentionaly hypocritical, but rather factualy incorrect. Posts are deleted, and your assurances that they were are incorrect. I accept that you were unaware of his contradictory actions, but in light of recent history I felt the need to challenge the validity of the statement. Your comment would only have been hypocritical if you were aware of Roldan's actions, or consequent to learning of them, upheld them.

2. Thank you.

3. I don't think you did anything egregious, but only worded it the way I did because it was similar to what I have done with Roldan. Merely call on him to defend statements, and not let him off the hook so easily when the other person refuses. I was given the impression that this was semi stalking and unacceptable at this site, again only in refference to my interactions with Roldan. Under that banner it would be hypocritical to allow this thread to exist, but to delete the others, as they represent the same thing. Correct?

4. I can accept that what Kobe did as being wrong. But he responded PUBLICLY in the only way he could to a person who has called his doctrines heresy PUBLICLY, and as I was told, was rapping a song that was doing as such at that very moment. Tim and Shai influenced many people through their music, and if they were to later change their mind, much of the damage is already done. Kobe merely booed.

I will say that if someone appreciates Shai/Tim's approach to bashing ministers publicly, then those same people should appreciate Kobe's stance on bashing ministers publicly, regardless of their position being correct or not.

Just my takes.

peace.

[king neb]

Holy hoppin hopscotch batman! This thing exploded…did I lapse into a coma?

Just some quick thoughts here, not that anyone gives a rat’s grass what I think, but just some thoughts…

1.) I’ve seen more stuff disappear here than in a “Left Behind” movie. Kobe, your trivial issues are solved, the Rapture takes place daily here at the Café.

2.) Rick has boobies.

[the answer]

Kobe and eternal

I will get back to ya comments tomorrow.....

Thanks for clearing up the "booing thing" kobe

[DoGMaTiX]

kingneb said:

Holy hoppin hopscotch batman! This thing exploded…did I lapse into a coma?

Just some quick thoughts here, not that anyone gives a rat’s grass what I think, but just some thoughts…

1.) I’ve seen more stuff disappear here than in a “Left Behind” movie. Kobe, your trivial issues are solved, the Rapture takes place daily here at the Café.

2.) Rick has boobies.

LOL! good one

I'm working on my boobies. been running and lifting weights ;D

[eternal]

Easy. Time consuming, but easy. It kind of sucks to have to cut and paste history just to prove you aint lying. But its on me right? Here you go...

First, here is a link to the thread in question for any/everyone to check out if they so desire, to check context, derivation, etc. voiceofthelamb.org/community/index.php?showtopic=140

It began about a conversation about cessation. You affirmed it, I think everyone else disagreed. You were in a tough spot on that count alone, and one that I find myself in many a times myself, and can appreciate. However, you presented your case and were very definitive. I questioned some of your premises and points. You claimed they were “adhominems and red herrings” and thus unworthy of your response. I disputed your claims they were adhominems nor red herrings, but rather very to the point. I continued to address EVERY single issue you would put on the table. I was enjoying the convo and attention to the scripture it demanded. Good stuff. Yet I became distressed when you would ignore direct questions. I asked you answer the questions I had asked of you, and you told me to requote the questions you ignored. So I did so, and you ignored them still. I made mention of that, and you became upset. I requited my questions, you continued to ignore. Then you blew up and said you would only talk with Luke. This is when the “incident in question” came about. Because N8* began questioning you about ignoring my questions and points being made. You made some comments about him being too young and inexperienced to talk with you…

Look dude, just keep reading and being a bystander before you just post things…


How old are you?...

I am going to ignore N8 form this point on since i think this cat is immature and is not bringing anything fruitful to the table, so carry on….

I agree that he didn’t have a strong background, and he admitted as such, but his questions are still his. I deal with people who know very little yet have big opinions everyday. But your responses to him prolly set the stage for his frustration with you ignoring not only him, but also all the points I directed DIRECTLY to you.

So then he said,

I take this subject very persoanl. For the very topic at hand I am dealing with in the 1st person and is a big part of my walk with God. You stating the gifts are gone is either saying Im posessed by the devil, I'm crazy and cant tell reality apart from imagination, and my walk with God is something completely made up and might as well be thrown out the window. because Ive experienced what you say is no more, hence it is immpossible for them to be no more. Im not hating on you nor do I hold any type of grudge of any sorts. But you are saying a very large part of my life, and walk with Christ isn't real, that bothers me to the point to where I want to defend that they still do exist. Nothing personal against you, but Ive seen, heard and felt. And Im not the only one.

This is basically the same approach you took on theology café. You said on this thread on theology café:

But I agree with Tim and Shai myself, so I guess my music will not be annointed either or used of God. We'll see

Both posts paint the same picture. The person who disagrees with my theology feels I am not anointed and/or used by God, and thus my faith experience is somehow considered unauthentic. This is how N8* felt about your claims that prophecy/miracles/tongues are ceased, and is how you expressed your feelings about Kobe saying that people bashing WOFers are not doing what God would have them do.

This is the point I made, and I said you dismissed N8* star, which you did. Before this he kept trying to make the point that just because you had not experienced these gift operations personally, doesn’t mean you should wipe them out so quickly. It is not an argument I would use in your case, but it is the case he kept making because of the personal weight these issues have in his own faith, and you would respond with sarcastic replies such as “how old are you” and other dismissals. I agree he wasn’t the most learned, but since when is that a qualification for respect, or for his questions to be dealt with? He often yielded to mine or Luke’s posts, so he wasn’t really demanding you address his own personal stuff, other than a passage that says the gifts had ceased. Point being, that he kept sharing his personal connection with what you were saying was false, and expressed his disheartment with that. And you would dismiss those appeals.

The connection I made here on Theology café was that you now were appealing to personal identity with something that another person claimed to be not of God, and seemed to take offense at that critique. That is neither a lie nor a slander, yet you blew up as such, and wasted all our time, especially mine putting me in a corner where I had to retype history out for you, when it is all so obvious and clear.