An apology to the board

[king neb]

i want to apologize to all of the members here for some remarks i have made lately. I had promised 'the answer' that i would not do that and have failed in that promise.

though im sure many may not accept this, you must understand that when i call someone a 'cookie cut reformer', i am usually enjoying a nice cigar, listening to some Procussions' jazz tracks in the background, laughing my head off as i type it, looking forward to my wife finishing up whatever she's doing to get in the sack with her. im not typing in rage, banging the keyboard. those that know me know that you literally would have to kick me in the sack to get me mad...i am very laid back...in a nutshell, it is done thinking that the other person will laugh it off and not give any thought to it and just address the main stuff. it's usually for effect, much like what 'angry comedians' do. LIkewise, my responses to charges of 'heresy' are in the same mood because ultimately, i dont care if another person thinks im doomed for the simple reason that they don't control the situation. I don't even concern myself with that for God ultimately decides in the matter. All i know is that 13 years ago in a southern baptist church, He caused me to follow and obey the call of the Gospel and i have never looked back since. i could not walk away from Christ if i tried. If God does end up sending me to hell, i will go believing that He died for my sins and continue to confess Him as Sovereign King and righteous ruler of all.

so, in summary, i am the happiest person alive, despite what many think about me.

look at my avatar for crying out loud...i didn't photo that and then smirk...i took it laughing my head off and hollaring at my five year old Jordan to come take a look and we laughed together.

also, most of the people that i have sparred with in the past (not online) usually acted the same way - we could both call each other idiots and f*gs and then have a beer together 30 minutes later. i know, for some of you that sounds very strange, but its hard to explain. its like trash talk on a basketball court...and again, if you know me, you'd know my love for the game.

at any rate, regardless of whether you accept that explanation or not, i did make a promise to the answer that i would not do that and i did. Sooo, please accept my apologies and Lord willing, i will attempt my best to refrain from any personal attacks, names, etc.

i hope to post soon on the issue of God as author of sin and have asked a good friend of mine to keep me accountable and filter my response before i post it.

chea

[the answer]

Very big of u man.

Sometimes things that are said are amplified due to the rising anger of a debate. In other situations that type of comment might have been laughed off, but it was getting personal so emotions were more fragile.

Plus over the net it's hard to know "how" a person is saying somethin!

But.... big of u dog

CHEA

[DoGMaTiX]

Apology accepted ;D

Thats the Neb I know

[eternal]

Cool thread. I will say this though, and I hope it is recieved by any who read it with recognition of the respect I am typing it. I like everyone on this board, and everyone on this board is family to me. I've had moments with each of you, sometimes a few moments but at the same time I appreciate yall, and respect yall (pretty easy to say this since there is only like 5 people who even post on here).

With that said, I will say I understand very personaly what Neb is going through. Only in the world of the internet have I ever been through such disgusting stuff. In the real world I am very loved and respected, and so it is odd when I hit the internet I had folks telling me I was not a Christian, a wolf in sheeps clothing, and someone who had to be warned of to the true flock.

Now if some dude just had a beef with me and thought ill of me or that I wasn't a Christian, I wouldn't trip. What I always hated was when people would make posts about me using that rhetoric. When folks would make sure to tell everyone on the forum(s) that I was this horrible fake Christian. It seemed so evil to me.

Especialy when I would ask for the biblical reason why I was what they were calling me, and NONE would come. Yall know my history and who all was involved with it. And as many debates I had, NOT ONE TIME did someone say, "yo eternal, this verse says you not a Christian." It was always an appeal to this philosophical reasoning, or to this creed or whatnot. And I hated that, cuz I was participating in a board where there was a propganda mission against me. New members of the board would be warned about me. I started the race 50ft behind. That sucked.

But most importantly, I see the devestation it does to the family of God. We all suppossed to be united and operating together in the same spirit, but when some people want to bash others they break this up, and devestate and cripple the body. They are destroying the body. Sure they feel like they are helping the body get rid of germs who are infecting it, but if they don't have the scripture to prescribe their medicine (horrible analogy I know) then they are not the person to do what they are doing.

I just say this, imagine if you are wrong about your assesments of the person you are condemning. What if you are wrong. Imagine the horrible sin you have committed against the body of Christ! Against your own family! Someone who Christ was brutalized over! These condemnations are serious, and shouldn't be undertaken without solid scriptural reason.

I have been through it, and know where Neb comes from, and I try to look out for him when these things happen, cuz I know how easy it is to blow our cool. Cuz when others slander us (the heretics) it is because they deserve it, and they really are snakes, etc. I was told that I was being prayed against in my ministry, that I wouldn't polute the ears of the children I love so much! That was harsh! But if I would pull their card, and loose my cool for even a minute, everyone would jump on me...and I hated that. I knew I blew my cool, but I couldn't help but compare that instance to the constant barage of slander that was being thrown at me.

It's hard to deal with, when you are trying to be a part of a community, and you have someone committed to exposing you as an enemy of Christ to everyone you encounter. That has been my experience, and I can't help but see it in all these conversations about Neb.

As I started by saying, I respect everyone, Roldan (especially you because I know this might appear to be gunned at you, but believe I have nothing but love and respect for you, and count you as my brother in Christ who I would assist in any way I could), Answer, HHH, Consistent. I like yall, and hope you don't find offense against me, but rather just consider what I said. ESPECIALLY about, "what if you are wrong." That is a very deep question.

peace yall.

[DoGMaTiX]

Eternal, I have actually been contemplating "what if I was completely wrong" for a couple of months now and have dived back into intense study of scripture and have been checking the theology that I hold to. But I must admit, as I continue to investigate what I believe open minded and without bias, I honestly have been feeling more and more secure in the interpretation of scripture as held by Reformed Theology and its findings.

Keep in mind that I wasn't born into a Reformed family or anything like that, I've actually held many differents varieties of doctrines that were not reformed at all.

But to each his own, right? LOL!

Also I would like to say that I yes I Roldan have been called Heretic so many times that I lost track. But it does not faze me at all. I was almost practically stoned at a christian hip hop concert for being calvinist and not believing in Tongues.prophecy etc... is for today. This is no exageration, you can even ask some of my youth group of that time and some friends like Leroy who Neb also knows.

I have been labeled as "little antichrist" "demon boy" "son of the devil" by family members and churches for my stance for what I believe to be truth.

My point is that I've also know the feeling, been there done that as well.

I can go on with stories that would shock you.

But in any case, I find confidence in the Christ of my systematics and faith.

one

[eternal]

Glad I checked the board!

Man that sucks that you have had to go through that too. I haven't had none of that in real life like you have. I just don't like the persistent stuff. And one more thing, just to be clear cuz Im not sure I was, but when I said "what if you are wrong" it wasn't in refference to your systematic or doctrine or whatever else, but only to your assesment of Neb not being a Christian.

I think that is presumptious territory, if our criticism falls under terms not outlined in the scriptures. I once tried to come up with what I can find to be deffinitive qualifications as named in the scriptures. Here is what I came up with:

Paul provides an outline of his gospel in 1 Cor. 15. Here we find the bullet points of Christ dying for our sins; death, burial, ressurection, and appearances. Now, in other parts of the scripture, we find this toughenin up even further. In Romans, Paul declares that, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Now, these are some pretty clear terms.

Further, we can look at 1 Jn. 4:2 and find the aposle sharing: By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

This further builds a case for who is a Christian, if this is our intrest (it rarely is my intrest, but of course is our premise for our current discussion).

I also think there is sufficient Old Testament evidence to suggest that there is ONE God, though I have a hard time admitting this one, since most of the patriarchs, and indeed Jewish people leading into the exile were primarily polytheiatic, confessing their clan God, and when feeling brave, confessing the "God above all Gods."

1 Jn. 3:17 also speaks quite clear to some of thisL But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

So we see some doctirnal distinctions shaping up here defining the Christian:

1. One TRUE God (I think this lends to the acceptance of our OT saints who were polythestic but worshipped YHWH with reverance).

2. The Lordship of Jesus Christ

3. The death, burrial, ressurection of Jesus Christ.

4. Christ died for our sins.

5. LOVE (This could be further strenghtned beyond the 1 John passage, with disussion of it being the fulfillment of the law, the nature of Christ, 1st and 2nd greatest commandment, etc...but find it sufficient for the both of us to agree as is).

6. Christ came in the flesh.

Now, this may seem too short of a list. But I am trying to just stick with the clear deffenitives as outlined in the scripture.

I am uncomfortable with dismissing any person who affirms this list.

[king neb]

Rick,

Not to make light of your struggles in the past, but im not so sure that your experience would parallel mine. Putting death threats, having a shot gun pointed at my windshield, and actually getting punched square in the face by a youth minister,r to the side (yes, all part of my southern Baptist experience in good ol’ alabama), ask yourself how many supralapsarian, (full) prets you know? I know less than ten in the country. Im sure there are more, but I’ll probably never meet them.

I too, was not raised reformed, or in church at all for that matter. I started off in a dispensational Southern Baptist Church. When I became reformed, sure, I lost a lot of friends (and got punched), but at least there was a whole new cosmos of reformed community open to me. The friends were quickly replaced. You’ve got history, seminaries, churches, bookstores, the list goes on…

Now, imagine that world turning their back on you. Imagine the 98% of the reformed community that you took bullets for, now joining the chorus with the charismatics in calling you every name in the book and banning you from fellowship.

There are no Calvinistic, full preterist churches for me to take refuge in. There are no books in the bookstore for me to find comfort. I don’t have the option of going to another church when one doesn’t like me, I have to plant one.

Sorry bro, but I have been in your shoes and beyond. And yes, it does wear me down emotionally. Thank God for His sovereign care.

I can say everything that you have said above and then some, including the going back and examining everything again.

So where does that leave us?

Well, for me, as bad as all that sounds, it still only boils down to one thing regardless of experience – God’s Word. And that is where I like what eternal is doing – where does SCRIPTURE draw the line? Mind you, I believe there are lines to be drawn, but I do not believe the box is as small as many make it.

Anywho, peace to all of you…good thread…I sincerely love you guys..hope you have a great weekend…

Meanwhile, I’ll work on my post for the other thread.

[DoGMaTiX]

Thats sucks Neb. Just look forward and not backwards and look to Christ.

My point wasn't who had it worse just that I to know the feeling.

one

[eternal]

Hey Roldan,

What did you think about the biblical test I outlined as a basis for rejecting people from the fellowship?