Post by eternal on Apr 24, 2006 12:41:14 GMT -5
kingneb said:
Eternal,Im not sure how you are getting a 'eutopia' out of those passages. What "disputes" are people going to be having in a eutopian paradise? see Is. 2.4, Is. 11.3 and Micah 4.3.
The "eutopia" refference was directed towards the Western Church's view of pre fall world.
The images of Isaiah and Micah, etc are dependent upon a "going back" understanding of the work of Christ. The values and will of God is seen in these passages. Christ was the epitome of this on earth, and His message lives with us today (and we Christians by and large support death penalty, wars, no tax help for the poor, etc).
I don't know if its necessarily going to happen, though I pray it will. I understand that these qualities are the qualities of God, manifested in Christ, and prayerfuly us Christians as we live out the Kingdom of God.
But this is the ideal, God's will and character.
From what I can gather really, I don't see much of a difference between what you and I believe in terms of implication...but that may just be due to my own ignorance of the issues. But I brought these passages us because they present a greater reality that we are to live and apply and change the world through so that it may be done on earth as it is in heaven.
So maybe I misunderstand, but sin and death and wars and violence are not a part of the ideal. How do you look at this? Does the scripture teach that the Kingdom of God is filled with these things?
I don't view the Kingdom of God as a location, as an "age" or anything like that, but rather the character and truth of God that lives amidst us and is put into practice as well as suffers violence, but I believe in the hereafter it is in full and unimpeded and constant in flow without interuption or impurity.
On earth we strive for the Kingdom living, but it takes on different manifestations in a fallen world. So where in the afterlife we will recognize truth in one degree, we see one application of it here on earth in rendering fair judgments, being humble, etc. Rendering fair and just judgments is only relevant and possible in a fallen world.
But then again, I don't even know if Isaiah was necessarily trying to make that claim, or if he was just trying to articulate justice as best he can. I mean he paints a peaceful image, but then also discusses fair and righteous decissions and judgments. Maybe that is the establishment? I don't know.
As you know I have never really looked at eschatology in terms of how everything will unfold. I have looked at Kingdom of God statements and have come up pretty much with what I said above. I guess to be honest, I have always just assumed that the world will end one day when Jesus comes back and it will all be over. I know you believe the world will just continue forever.
But the question I have asked you a few times and your answers have never really settled with me (that is not your fault, just it didn't settle is all) is what is the difference between 70AD and 71AD? What changed? Seemingly nothing but head knowledge theology. That sort of worries me.