Post by DoGMaTiX on May 27, 2005 16:53:01 GMT -5
Here is a discussion between Eternal and myself on another meassage board that I wanted to bring here.
Eternal says:
Eternal says:
This may be a tangent...but if Adam was first to sin as the bible says many times, and that sin was as you say not "obeying the covenant of works (do not take of fruit)" how would it not be that EVE in fact was the one to introduce sin to the world? She was actually the first one to eat suppossedly, correct?
With this in mind, I think your statement to be incorrect.
The scripture does say in that narrative, that adam was "with her." I know it is common lore that Eve fell into temptation and sin by herself and then went and sought out adam from some distant location. But this is not what the scripture shares in its tale. Instead it says that Adam was there "with her."
So how can we make sense of the scriptures teaching that sin came into the world through adam? Did the first sin occur when the teeth hit the fruit? Or did it happen earlier? Proverbs 3 teaches that we keep the commandments with our heart...not our teeth May I ask, if Adam was consistent in the character of God, love, other-centeredness, compassion, etc...would he have just stood there and watched this whole ordeal transpire, with no interjection? Was not Adam given responsibility of cultivation and keeping creation, fruitfulness, etc? So why did Adam not intervene, when flesh of his flesh, and God's own special creature was tempted to disobey? Did he want to see what would happen? Perhaps he felt he was in a "win-win" situation? That if she ate the fruit, and she "died" then he knew better than to follow suit and eat as well. But if it were true that there was indeed benefiet to this transgression, then he could likewise eat and reap the rewards. This is selfishness, looking out for number one. He did not "esteem one another more highly than yourselves" as Paul admonishes the Philippians. Rather, he participated in relationship from a self centered stand point. He did not keep the commandments with his heart. He did not care for his neighbor, nor love her.
This, in my estimation, is how Adam sinned, and transgressed the nature of God, and the nature of man in which he was created. The ramifications of such an act are still felt and known.
Perhaps it is "works" as you suggest. Maybe you can fit this into that context. But we do know that the sin that adam introduced to the world was not "eating a fruit" for this action had already taken place by time adam's teeth got shimmy with it. I don't know what kind of "covenant" you want to call it...character...nature...image...God likeness... I don't know. But it was his character apparently that fell short, his lack of "being like God" (which he was already, though he apparently pursued this through means oppossed to his desired end...irony of course is that he sought what he already was in God..."like God") that brought death and all its force into our world
With this in mind, I think your statement to be incorrect.
The scripture does say in that narrative, that adam was "with her." I know it is common lore that Eve fell into temptation and sin by herself and then went and sought out adam from some distant location. But this is not what the scripture shares in its tale. Instead it says that Adam was there "with her."
So how can we make sense of the scriptures teaching that sin came into the world through adam? Did the first sin occur when the teeth hit the fruit? Or did it happen earlier? Proverbs 3 teaches that we keep the commandments with our heart...not our teeth May I ask, if Adam was consistent in the character of God, love, other-centeredness, compassion, etc...would he have just stood there and watched this whole ordeal transpire, with no interjection? Was not Adam given responsibility of cultivation and keeping creation, fruitfulness, etc? So why did Adam not intervene, when flesh of his flesh, and God's own special creature was tempted to disobey? Did he want to see what would happen? Perhaps he felt he was in a "win-win" situation? That if she ate the fruit, and she "died" then he knew better than to follow suit and eat as well. But if it were true that there was indeed benefiet to this transgression, then he could likewise eat and reap the rewards. This is selfishness, looking out for number one. He did not "esteem one another more highly than yourselves" as Paul admonishes the Philippians. Rather, he participated in relationship from a self centered stand point. He did not keep the commandments with his heart. He did not care for his neighbor, nor love her.
This, in my estimation, is how Adam sinned, and transgressed the nature of God, and the nature of man in which he was created. The ramifications of such an act are still felt and known.
Perhaps it is "works" as you suggest. Maybe you can fit this into that context. But we do know that the sin that adam introduced to the world was not "eating a fruit" for this action had already taken place by time adam's teeth got shimmy with it. I don't know what kind of "covenant" you want to call it...character...nature...image...God likeness... I don't know. But it was his character apparently that fell short, his lack of "being like God" (which he was already, though he apparently pursued this through means oppossed to his desired end...irony of course is that he sought what he already was in God..."like God") that brought death and all its force into our world