Hip hop head let start over

[eternal]

hiphophead said:

It has a basis. But the meat of it isn't biblical. Like i said the main premise of trinity that "God is 3 persons" is subjective thought that can't be verified with scripture. Everything I've said can be tho.

This is where you are wrong. Because while you try and only put up a bible verse to serve as your deffinition, the Trinitarian can do the same thing. Problem is both camps have interpretation process that is being omitted in favor of looking biblical.

Your position can not be found clearly in the scripture any more than the Trinitarian doctrine can. Both are deduced and worked out extra-biblicaly. Both doctrines are the same in this respect. So while you post scriptures and claim that they define your doctrine for you, what you really doing is saying, "read them the way I do, and you will see." Unfortunately that is the same exact thing the Trinitarian does, and we all are left in the same place.

That is why just quoting scripture won't work all the time, and we have to discuss how we put it together.

peace.

[the answer]

eternal said:

hiphophead said:

It has a basis. But the meat of it isn't biblical. Like i said the main premise of trinity that "God is 3 persons" is subjective thought that can't be verified with scripture. Everything I've said can be tho.

This is where you are wrong. Because while you try and only put up a bible verse to serve as your deffinition, the Trinitarian can do the same thing. Problem is both camps have interpretation process that is being omitted in favor of looking biblical.

Your position can not be found clearly in the scripture any more than the Trinitarian doctrine can. Both are deduced and worked out extra-biblicaly. Both doctrines are the same in this respect. So while you post scriptures and claim that they define your doctrine for you, what you really doing is saying, "read them the way I do, and you will see." Unfortunately that is the same exact thing the Trinitarian does, and we all are left in the same place.

That is why just quoting scripture won't work all the time, and we have to discuss how we put it together.

peace.

Amen E!!

HHH-

I want to stay on the John passage tho. You say it was a sign to John. What was? THE SPIRIT DECENDING. THAT is the sign!

I don't read that text as a 'teaching on the Godhead' however when I read I ask "what is going on here" How is God showing Himself. If God is 1 ( deut 6:4) Then what is going on here? This is where I find your view unsatisfactory!

The father in heaven( where does it say the voice was a sign?)

Where does it say Jesus in the water was a sign?

1

[HIPHOPHEAD]

eternal said:

Both are deduced and worked out extra-biblicaly.....

ok, where do i work out anything extra biblically fam? Let me know.

[HIPHOPHEAD]

admin said:

Amen E!!

HHH-

I want to stay on the John passage tho. You say it was a sign to John. What was? THE SPIRIT DECENDING. THAT is the sign!

I don't read that text as a 'teaching on the Godhead' however when I read I ask "what is going on here" How is God showing Himself. If God is 1 ( deut 6:4) Then what is going on here? This is where I find your view unsatisfactory!

The father in heaven( where does it say the voice was a sign?)

Where does it say Jesus in the water was a sign?

1

Amen, the Spirit descending was a sign. and GOD is what? a spirit.

To answer your question, what is going on? God is revealing to John the Baptist who Jesus is, and making sure he has no doubt about it. There you go.

Amen, you don't believe that the text is teaching godhead. great. So why do you divide God in 3?! where does scripture do this. Like I've repeatedly said, God is all-powerful etc. So why does he have to be 3 to do anything he's ever done? and where is this in the scripture? and if he doesn't have to be three where do we get the idea, from scripture, that he is three if he never said it?!

[the answer]

hiphophead said:

admin said:

Amen E!!

HHH-

I want to stay on the John passage tho. You say it was a sign to John. What was? THE SPIRIT DECENDING. THAT is the sign!

I don't read that text as a 'teaching on the Godhead' however when I read I ask "what is going on here" How is God showing Himself. If God is 1 ( deut 6:4) Then what is going on here? This is where I find your view unsatisfactory!

The father in heaven( where does it say the voice was a sign?)

Where does it say Jesus in the water was a sign?

1

Amen, the Spirit descending was a sign. and GOD is what? a spirit.

To answer your question, what is going on? God is revealing to John the Baptist who Jesus is, and making sure he has no doubt about it. There you go.

Amen, you don't believe that the text is teaching godhead. great. So why do you divide God in 3?! where does scripture do this. Like I've repeatedly said, God is all-powerful etc. So why does he have to be 3 to do anything he's ever done? and where is this in the scripture? and if he doesn't have to be three where do we get the idea, from scripture, that he is three if he never said it?!

You are missing my point. Jesus and the dove are 2 different people, right?

You say "this is a sign to John" but u have not explained what God is doing. Why is God- In the water-coming down as a dove- and speaking from heaven?

I have gone over our previous posts just to make sure. You have never explained this.

Is God a ventriloquist?

[HIPHOPHEAD]

admin said:

You are missing my point. Jesus and the dove are 2 different people, right?

You say "this is a sign to John" but u have not explained what God is doing. Why is God- In the water-coming down as a dove- and speaking from heaven?

I have gone over our previous posts just to make sure. You have never explained this.

Is God a ventriloquist?

Ok, I'ma start with the "ventriloquist" argument because it's always amusing. What is a ventriloquism? projecting your voice so that is seems to come from somewhere. Realize that comparison puts GOD on a human level. There was no ventriloquist act. When God was on earth, in a human body, he was in heaven speaking to John the Baptist at the same time.


Now, your other questions:
"Why is God- In the water?"

He was getting baptized.


"-coming down as a dove?"

Dove is sign of the holy ghost. This is a sign to John the Baptist.


"-and speaking from heaven?"

Heaven is where God dwells. Heaven is where God speaks from. Basic jewish religious culture. no ventriloquism needed.


"Jesus and the dove are 2 different people, right?"

Huh?! The dove is not a person. It was a manifestation of God "...I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove...".


Here's another GREAT 3:16 for you to ponder (minus trinity)

1 Tim. 16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

GOD, not God the son. Just God.

[HIPHOPHEAD]

eternal said:

This is where you are wrong. Because while you try and only put up a bible verse to serve as your deffinition, the Trinitarian can do the same thing.

I've been waiting for a trinitarian to do just that.

[eternal]

hiphophead said:

eternal said:

This is where you are wrong. Because while you try and only put up a bible verse to serve as your deffinition, the Trinitarian can do the same thing.

I've been waiting for a trinitarian to do just that.

Cute. The point is that the Oneness heads and the Trinitarian heads both share the same passages, and then apply interpretation processes to them.

You know this as well as I do. Your doctrine depends on a system of interpretation just as the Trinitarian doctrine does. That is why I have been saying that it is impossible to have a debate that goes...

Trinitarian: 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”

Oneness:1 Corinthians 8:4-6 “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”

Trinitarian:Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

Oneness: Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

Trinitarian: Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!”

Oneness: Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!”

Trinitarian: Isaiah 46:9 “Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.”

Oneness: Isaiah 46:9 “Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me.”

Trinitarian:Psalms 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

Oneness: Psalms 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

Trinitarian:Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."

Oneness: Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."

Trinitarian: Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners;

Oneness: Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners;

WOW! What stimulating conversation! This could go on forever. So it appears that more than just throwing bible verses at each other, a discussion of the interpretation process is actually needed. Both camps believe these passages put together fit together the way they just happen to believe. That piecing together is an extrabiblical effort, on your part just as much as ours.

peace.

[HIPHOPHEAD]

eternal said:

Cute. The point is that the Oneness heads and the Trinitarian heads both share the same passages, and then apply interpretation processes to them.

You know this as well as I do. Your doctrine depends on a system of interpretation just as the Trinitarian doctrine does. That is why I have been saying that it is impossible to have a debate that goes....

lol. Breathe fam. Peep, I agree that there are interpretation processes. The QUESTION is from where was the intepretation process derived?

Like Paul and the other Apostles, I derive mine from scripture. But with trinitarian theology, (at least from what I've been reading and hearing) seems like it's derived from certain philosophical argument that aren't in scripture and which have no scripture base with which to begin.

I know you'd like these arguments to be on equal footing but they're not. Unless you can give me a specific source NON-Biblical source where I'm getting my "intepretation process" from. holla

[the answer]

To me the John passage is clear

HHH u seem to dismiss the clear presence of 3 different persons on that day

[HIPHOPHEAD]

sigh. fam, i guess we're in the same boat then. Because in this thread and especially in first thread I gave Uhaul trucks worth of scriptures that plainly spelled out what I was saying. I have yet to see one that tells me that God is three person. Holla when you find it.

admin said:

To me the John passage is clear

HHH u seem to dismiss the clear presence of 3 different persons on that day